Wellness focused interior design with Angela Harris of TRIO in Denver, Colorado
Alas Over Lowry_CO_ Photo by Adrian Tiemens
Wellness interior design expert Angela Harris
Welcome to episode 074 of the Green Healthy Places podcast in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality.
I’m your host, Matt Morley, and this week I’m in Denver, Colorado talking to Angela Harris, CEO an Principal of TRIO.
Angela is an American interior designer, product designer, industry board member and she has a Masters in Sustainable Design.
She’s been building TRIO over the past 25 years or so and her team now designs everything from master planned communities, to commercial, hospitality and residential developments.
Angela, welcome to the podcast!
Could you give us a quick intro to the TRIO business as you would describe it and what the business looks like today, its different services and so on?
Wellness interior designers
Angela Harris
Absolutely so, we manage a portfolio of brands and one of those brands is TRIO that services the builder and developer market for over 23 years, really we're tasked with new community development.
01:12.52
mattmorley
So you say there's a portfolio of other brands, how have you have you structured that in terms of the partner brands or sub-brands?
Wellness and sustainability goals in community development
01:15.98
Yeah I Think what we found through building TRIO is that we wanted the opportunity to have a holistic perspective when it comes to the built environment and so we branched off into a couple of different brands.
We also have a brand that handles Research and Development. We do full service interior design for builders and developers through TRIO, then we have a luxury residential side of the business as well as product development and that allows us to kind of look at our projects again specifically in New Community development from a holistic perspective to reach our own wellness design and sustainability goals.
Research & Development for evidence based design
02:05.54
mattmorley
Do you see it as being vertically integrated with the R&D happening one step before the work is delivered at the healthy building level and then another layer down which is actual interior products that go into the spaces you're designing?
So essentially you've got these three business units that interconnect right?
02:26.69
Angela Harris
Absolutely it allows us to look at a project from A to Z and really ensure that we're not tracing Trends necessarily but that we're putting out intentional design that has a purpose.
Nothpointe_AZ_Rendering
Healthy design and sustainable interiors - market fit
02:40.81
mattmorley
Your team and I connected via a project to do with health and wellness in one of the community developments that you're currently working on.
Taking a step back, how, where and what type of development are you finding most success in implementing healthy interior design principles that you've become known for over the last decade or two?
From neuroaesthetics to sustainability
03:03.70
Angela Harris
Yeah, I get this question a lot because there's a lot of conversation in the market right now as it relates to health and wellness and from our perspective again because we are a firm that doesn't like to chase trends necessarily but to really look at things holistically.
And really look at it from the user Experience. We start with the research and development side of things so that we can stay on the forefront of innovation and we're talking about everything from sustainability, to neuroaesthetics, air quality, health and wellness.. we don't just compartmentalize the wellness conversation.
Where we have most success is the developers and the builders that are really open to the discussion or the conversation of having more dynamic spaces that provide experiences, that engage the end user and the design process.
Adding context to interior design choices
04:07.70
mattmorley
Well I've seen that at work when you're able to bring an extra layer of of depth insight and rigour to the suggestions that the creative team are tabling for for a developer.
There's a creative piece. There's the aesthetics and then you're able to add this additional layer which is and about 'the why' , showing how a specific design choice actually functions, explaining what you might intuitively sense once you eventually get into the the space.
04:57.54
Angela Harris
Ah, absolutely I think in an essence it's taking the design rationale to the next level and with the technology that we use today. It's easy to articulate that vision and the why behind the 'what' or to validate that design rationale.
Preserve at Kissing Camels_CO_ Photo by Eric Lucero_2
Biophilic Design and Biophilia
05:16.57
mattmorley
What about biophilic design and healthy materials? Are there any specific areas within the umbrella term of 'healthy interiors' where you're finding a lot of demand perhaps post-Covid?
06:07.80
Angela Harris
I think we've been very fortunate over the last several years that our manufacturers have really tied into the same vision of health, wellness and sustainability.
So I think they've done an exceptional job at sourcing those products whether it be natural materials or whether they're going to introduce an engineered product to the market that they're really doing the due diligence behind that engineering to make sure that there's very low toxicity or no toxicity in those materials.
I think our manufacturers have done a really great job at keeping up with consumer demand and that makes our job a lot easier you know and so I think we continue to hone in on that as it relates to Biophilia in particular.
Biophilia is a very important conversation and I'm glad that it has reached the surface of the market where we are seeing market demand on the consumer side of that and I now think it's part of you know a piece of education because it not only ties into sustainability attributes. It also ties into neuroaesthetics.
Bringing the outside in through biophilic design
I think there's a misunderstanding that biophilia comes with this really expensive green wall or that it's very expensive to do and in reality it has so much more to do with just the overall general connection to nature so that encompasses things like natural light, natural greenery throughout the space to promote healthy indoor air quality and so forth.
So it's not just a matter of 'I'm going to throw a whole bunch of Live plants in my environment and say that I am designing around the principles of biophilic design'.
I think there's more things that can be taken into consideration such as sight lines and views of nature for example.
In new community development that becomes a very important conversation.
Towards a green healthy design aesthetic?
08:02.84
mattmorley
It can sometimes feel almost as if it's about doing perhaps a bit less and letting nature do some of the work rather than over-designing a space.
So what is the bridge between Biophilic design and that term that we've used a couple of times now of neuroaesthetics for anyone who's perhaps unfamiliar with the term?
Preserve at Kissing Camels_CO_ Photo by Eric Lucero_2
Simplicity and authenticity in wellness interior design
08:32.73
Angela Harris
Well, it's funny that you say that because I couldn't agree with you more I think what we need to continue the conversation on especially when it comes to design is simplicity and authenticity.
That means downplaying the egotistical side that we have always seen historically in our industry and playing up this idea of no delineation between site and structure or indoors and outdoors
Think when it comes to neuroaesthetics a lot of those principles are being taken into consideration all the way from visual complexity to biophilic design to fractal patterning and color.
But I am hopeful and in fact, one of the research projects we're doing right now is to validate that kind of direction in our industry where it really is more about simplicity and celebrating the natural environment in which we live
How to communicate the benefits of healthy interiors and wellness design
09:29.36
mattmorley
And so for example with the neuroaesthetics piece is that something you lead on with a client or is it something that you sort of keep in your back pocket. You know is a developer buying into that?
Is the developer taking that concept forward and rolling it out as part of their concept that is then communicated out to the end client or perhaps it isn't necessarily something that the developer and their marketing team talk about in the end result?
09:50.27
Angela Harris
I think it's a combination of both - it's certainly something that we have adopted in our firm as part of our core values and our design philosophy.
It starts there because you know the designers that we have in-house are incredibly talented designers and if we don't believe in what we are designing or putting out to the market I think we have a fundamental breakdown from the beginning.
So we try to adopt this design philosophy in our core values and how we approach projects on the onset. Part of the other side of the coin is understanding our clientele, our builders and developers.
They're a very unique audience - there's no better group out there that cares more about developing amazing communities where people can thrive.
They still need to balance that with commercial imperatives and you know I think it's one of those things where it is a balance.
But what we have found is they are absolutely open to the discussion. As long as we can balance it with a budget and the limitations in which we have to get these projects out of the ground and into the market.
Using wellness focused interior design as a Unique Selling Point in community real estate
11:33.16
mattmorley
I Presume it's also to some extent or can be used as a unique selling point for the development, you're adding this additional health benefit in a sense. You've mentioned community a few times it's a word with an inherent social component to it.
Buildings reflect the cultural zeitgeist right, and there's so much happening at the moment around social connection and its importance in mental health and wellbeing.
So I wonder you've obviously dealt with so many of these over the years but the way you're approaching community developments now, say active adult developments around the US, how do you go about leveraging your research and design component and creating a sense of community not just building a development that is labelled as a 'community' but actually fostering social connection?
Are there things that you've been able to pick up along the way that can facilitate human connections for well being?
Wellness architecture and how indoor environments influence a healthier lifestyle
12:35.99
Angela Harris
Yes, and it's a very important conversation, it's one that gets missed in the whole mental and physical health dialogue - the social component!
Research has shown that a social component drives so much of mental and physical health and is part of any wellness journey.
It starts with what we believe in terms of a design philosophy - we create these buildings but they in turn construct us.
What we design and what we build and what we bring to market will 100% influence our users culturally, socially, politically and so forth.
Those design decisions become even more critical so in order for us to be successful. Not only do we have to tie into the vision of the developer. But a very important component is really understanding the operational guidelines that our communities are operating under as well as the programming that will be offered so that we can design around that.
Promoting human health in a multi-family residential vs community development context
13:54.24
mattmorley
So there's clearly a difference in those Concepts then around how you're designing something for an active adult community to a multifamily - is that largely to do with the type of programming?
14:00.89
Angela Harris
I think it starts with understanding the demographics, psychographics and how the values have changed within those psychographics and demographics and they certainly are changing on the 55 plus side.
Again, we are embracing a wellness interiors position in those particular interior and outdoor environments, and it's also from the outside perspective.
We study the site just as much as we study the interior environment and I think that that's very important because at the end of the day these projects are a meeting of the minds between multiple disciplines and the user experience and the operators in which these clubs or communities are being executed provide an important feedback loop in terms of the design process.
So it can't just be about the creator but it also has to be about the created or the user experience, the people operating the facility along the way.
And in reality the whole entire experience needs to be looked at in a more holistic perspective and that's what we're starting to to see now when it comes to designing spaces for a healthy lifestyle, positive impact.
Sustainable design decisions inspired by the natural world
15:46.63
mattmorley
So the health and wellness piece is interesting because it's something that the end user, the resident can connect with and benefit from, while the sustainability piece perhaps less so, or rather in an indirect way.
Are you finding there are bigger hurdles to pushing the green message with your clients, is there nowadays a wider acceptance that this is just something that needs to be part of the mix?
Perhaps they're going for LEED certification in interior design for example.
16:38.67
Angela Harris
Yes it has shifted over recent years and and we're still having the conversation especially in new community development whether that piece of the puzzle is valued by our consumers or not and the way that I answer that generally with my clientele is that it really doesn't matter!
What matters is that as a design professional working in the realm of new community development we have an obligation to design communities where people can thrive and where they can live their best lives and live their healthiest lives.
And so a large part of that comes through our core values and our design philosophies and the design decisions in which we are making and so I sleep better at night knowing that I can take that position and say hey this is just who we are and no longer is it a choice but this what we do as a design firm.
Availability of sustainable building materials, finishes and furniture
17:34.39
mattmorley
Do you feel that there is now a clear change from how things used to be where it did feel like sustainable interiors sort of had a specific style due to a lack of variety on the market?
Do you think we've left that era behind and you have a wider choice now?
18:26.89
Angela Harris
100% - I think that sustainability has definitely become mainstream. I think what our consumers have gone through in the last years has accelerated that.
I think that there are several choices in the market to make better design choices whether you're an architect, designer or landscape architect. There's plenty of products out on the market for us to select from that both have sustainability, wellness and even neuroaesthetic components to them.
I think that our consumers walk into a space and they may love it or they may hate it. But when they walk into that space a lot of times they don't even know how sustainable it is or that it's been designed around certain specific mental health principles. All they know is that it feels really good and that's when we've done our job right?
Developing a sub-brand of interior products for health and wellbeing
19:14.60
mattmorley
You mentioned the the idea of developing products working with Manufacturers I wondered if the strategy there had been about and but I guess is this is the connection between my previous question and this one but is is there a sense of. Ah, you could see that there was a gap in the Market?
You couldn't find a particular product and you decided to go out and fix it by manufacturing something yourself to fill that gap or has it been more of an organic process?
19:58.40
Angela Harris
And that was definitely an intentional strategy on our end. You know we do over 300 projects a year at TRIO and we were running into a challenge of finding a lot of more mainstream products that were full of toxic materials.
We couldn't reach the goals we were trying to accomplish and so really, the question became how do we start designing collections that are aesthetically pleasing that also tie into these wellness design principles, that are artful in their intention and of course non-toxic.
I think there's a real niche in the market for that right now. The industrial revolution changed a lot as we all know in terms of how our built environment is manufactured, how our products are manufactured.
General awareness of indoor air quality and toxic materials in interiors
20:54.70
mattmorley
I Always wonder how widely accepted that concept is though... for those of us close to the industry or in it looking from the inside out, we know enough about the Toxicity of certain materials and chemicals that have found a way into furniture that might be in bedrooms at home or in our offices but do you think that message is is out fully?
21:48.49
Angela Harris
No I think there's a lot more work to be done - we have started to see changes in our market. We certainly have started to see values shift in our consumers whether they're really connecting the dot in terms of hey I want to be. You know I want to tie into health and wellness but yet I'm sleeping in a bed that's highly toxic; I'm not sure that connection has been made yet.
I'm not sure that we have a complete commitment from some of our major manufacturers on What it means and the importance of not only non-toxic products but also aesthetically pleasing products I mean the aesthetics plays such an important role as well. And so how do we balance?
Aesthetics, non-toxicity and commercial priorities in wellness interior design
How do we balance the triangle of aesthetics, non-toxicity. And price points or capitalism. You know and I think the conversation of how to bridge those gaps and connect those dots are going to be the the people, manufacturers and designers that really thrive in the next ten years.
22:55.15
mattmorley
Well kudos to you for having made that bold move into making the products yourself and literally putting your money where your mouth is.
So what's next, where do you go from here when you look down the pipeline of the next 3 to 5 years?
23:33.28
Angela Harris
I do have to say none of this is possible without the incredible team over here at TRIO we make a really dynamic team and that's how we're able to accomplish and achieve so much already.
What's next is a deeper dive into neuro-aesthetics for mental health, we want to continue to do the research and development. We certainly have made that commitment for the next five years we have made a commitment to understanding visual arts and neuro-aesthetics as it relates to the built environment specifically.
We intend to bring that education to market and to speak on Panels and so forth about the importance of that concept.
We're also starting to talk about A.I. which is really exciting for us and so we will dive deeper into that and certainly in the next five to 10 years as well and I think that it's going to make a ah big shift in how we design!
https://www.linkedin.com/company/designbytrio/
https://www.byangelaharris.com/
Further Reading:
FITWEL Healthy Building Standard